Christ, the Sacrifice

Is it true that if the religious leaders in Israel had understood prophecy - that Christ was their promised Messiah - they would have sacrificed Christ by faith on the altar in the temple?

Yes.  That was the original intention – that by faith Christ would be their ultimate sacrifice for sin.  He had to die.  The cross is the central theme of everything God is doing. The old testament scriptures make that clear through all the types and shadows, even all the way back to Abraham who was to sacrifice Isaac on an altar.

God didn’t want him to actually do it because it was only a type and foreshadow.  The only human sacrifice was going to be the Son of God.  Every animal sacrifice was made on the altar in the temple.

When Paul said that he was obedient unto death, he is making a distinction.  Christ was always going to be obedient unto death. 

Philippians 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

In fact the psalmist has said,

Psalm 40:6-8

Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.  Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

And, in Hebrews…

Hebrews 10:5-6

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

He’s saying that all those animal sacrifices are not the issue – I am – a body.  So when Paul said “became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross,” he’s saying Christ was so obedient that he went above and beyond what He should have had to do.  Instead of being the Messiah-King hero sacrifice, He was a rejected, so-called impostor sacrifice, yet He was still sacrificed.

Was the cross prophesied?  Yes, because God knows the future.  But was that His original intent?  No.  I've had people ask if there really was a legitimate offer of the Kingdom since God knew Christ would die on the cross.  Yes, there was.

The Lord said Elijah (Elias) should come first,

Matthew 17:10-11
And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias (Elijah) must first come?  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

 

Malachi 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Who came in the spirit and power of Elijah?  John the Baptist! Even down to the way he dressed and how he acted because he had the spirit of Elijah.  Christ tells his disciples, if ye (Israel) had received the Kingdom instead of rejecting it, John would have been ‘Elijah,’ and He, Christ, would have been the second witness (the Prophet spoken of by Moses).  There would have been two witnesses representing the Law and the prophets – John and the Lord.

Zechariah 4:11-14

Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

There are two witnesses who represent the Law and the prophets in Revelation.  One who will have power to stop the rain like Elijah (James 5:17); and the other will turn the water into blood like Moses (Exodus 7:17-21):

Revelation 11:3-6

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

If Israel had sacrificed Jesus by faith on the altar, the Kingdom would have come because John the Baptist would have fulfilled the ministry of Elijah.

Hopefully this helps! 

_†††

_{++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

Northern California Grace Fellowship

Do you have a question for Pastor Ron?

 Heir of God or Joint-Heirs with Christ? 

Wrongly Deriding Joint-heirs with Christ

Liberty in Christ from tithing

Where does tithing fit into the liberty we have in Christ?  When I was in a denominational church I realized that I had become a prisoner to my mind because of tradition and religion, but that Christ had come to set me free from all that. 

That’s what religion does to you; it makes you a prisoner in your own mind.  But Paul talks about renewing your mind.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

It’s a ‘mind’ field.   For example, any believer who has been taught to tithe has been taught that by a religious teacher, and not the Bible.  Paul doesn’t mention tithing once.  If you believe Paul is your apostle and someone tells you that he doesn’t mention tithing one time – that should make bells and whistles go off!  At least ask, “Why didn’t he mention tithing?”

When you study it out you’ll notice that even the Lord under the law during His earthly ministry only mentioned tithing twice; and it wasn’t a monetary tithe; He was talking about herbs and other things. [Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42]

The issue of not having to tithe today should set a person free.  The religious, denominational church will say you have to be obedient; don’t rob God; don’t walk by sight, if you’re struggling you still have to give.  All that is nonsense.   If you’re struggling financially, today – do you know what God would have you to do?  Don’t give!  Don’t give to the church unless you can.  Take care of your home responsibilities first as a man; do what you have to do; pray for God to prosper you so that you might be a part of grace giving.

I Timothy 5:8

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

There are saints in every assembly that can bear financial burdens more than others.  Paul says:

2 Corinthians 8:15

As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

But religion and denominational legalism puts this burden on you to give when you’re unable.  No – you give if you’re able.  But if you can’t afford it now, pay your bills.  God has people in the assembly who are able.  If something changes down the line and those people have a financial calamity and are not able to give as much – guess what?  Right when it’s needed, maybe you’ll be the one who has more to give to make up for that lack.  That’s how grace works.

Hopefully this helps! 

_†††

_{++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

Northern California Grace Fellowship

Do you have a question for Pastor Ron?

 Heir of God or Joint-Heirs with Christ? 

Body types: earthly, celestial

When we are raptured and given a resurrected body, will that body be earthly or celestial? I searched your blog under 'heavenly,' and see that the church will rule and reign in heaven with Jesus so it doesn't sound like we will be on earth nor need an earthly body? Or, is heaven a physical location that needs physical resurrected bodies? As you see, my old non-rightly dividing the word still causes confusion.

Okay, let me deal first with the issue of what type of body we will all (i.e., saved people today in the body of Christ) get at the rapture...earthly or celestial? What we will see is that when Paul talks about "earthly" and "celestial", he is not focusing on our bodies in particular, he is dealing with the reality that those types of bodies do exist right now in creation...(I'll explain more later on). And because these different types of bodies do exist right now in creation, it is proof that there are differences in bodies.

Paul is not, and does not use those two terms to describe our resurrected bodies (he will use another term to describe them), he is simply showing that differences do exist right now when it comes to bodies in heaven and earth. When Paul uses the term "earthly", it refers to all bodies on the earth, not just human, but animals as well. And when he refers to "celestial" he is not dealing with our resurrected bodies, but those of the angels, etc., in context. So let's check out what I just said…

First of all, let me explain what our Apostle Paul is doing when he brings up the issue of "earthly" and "celestial" bodies. He begins talking about these different types of bodies that exist in creation in order to educate the saints at Corinth (and us too) about the fact that our ‘resurrection’ bodies will also be different than our current vile, natural bodies that we have today.

1 Corinthians 15:35-41

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Here in this part of the chapter, our Apostle is dealing with the objection that some who doubt the physical, bodily resurrection of mankind would have. He says that they would say: "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they comes?" The doubter would protest the truth of the physical, bodily resurrection by saying that once a person is dead, their "natural" human body begins to decay. So surely they could not come back in that same body could they?

But Paul cuts this objection off “at the pass” by going to something as simple as nature to show the process already exist. In verse 36, he calls the doubter a "fool" (a fool is one who does not consider God's ways). God has already shown humanity, through the germination process of planting seeds (something all mankind can see) that resurrection, and that of a new body, is nothing to marvel at or be astonished at! When one puts a seed in the ground, it dies!

1 Corinthians 15:36

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Our Lord Jesus Christ says something very similar during his earthly ministry to the nation of Israel as well...

John 12:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

So both Paul, as well as our Lord, makes it clear that the concept of life after death is not only plausible, but very true and reasonable, as evidenced in nature!

Paul goes on to say that the "body" of that seed that is "sown" in the ground in nature, is not the same body that is produced when it sprouts up out of the ground again...

1 Corinthians 15:37

And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Furthermore, he tells us that that it is God who decided what the new body that is produced would look like, and that in fact, it will have a new body!

1 Corinthians 15:38

But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Paul goes on to now use another example from nature. By the way, all this using natural things to show spiritual truths is how God teaches man...

Romans 1:19-22

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

....and this is why Paul said "Thou fool" in the previous verses.

Anyway, Paul shows from nature that although there all different types of creatures on this earth, they do not all have the same type of flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:39

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

And the point of bringing this up is to show that there are different types of bodies in this universe—not just on the earth, but also in the heavenly paces.

1 Corinthians 15:40

here are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Some there are bodies made for the heavens (celestial, i.e., angels, seraphim, and cherubim), and bodies made for this earth (terrestrial, or terra firma, i.e., humanity, animals, etc.). He also gives proof that the "glory" associated with these different bodies differs as well. And he shows it with the example of the sun, moon, and stars.

1 Corinthians 15:41

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Now Paul says all this, and I went over all this, in order to use it to show that the exact same thing is true when it comes to the resurrection of the dead!

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Notice that in verse 42, Paul says "so also?"  In other words, if you can see and understand what he is saying in the previous 7 verses, than you can also understand the resurrection! The dead body goes down "corrupted," but it comes up "uncorrupted." It goes down "dishonourable," it comes up "honorable, or glorified." It goes down "weak" but it comes up "powerful/with strength." It goes down "natural," that is the human flesh we were born with, and it comes up "spiritual," that is, with the new flesh that God gives us.

Notice something more; in verse 44, Paul makes it clear that there is only two types of human bodies: "natural" and "spiritual." He goes on to also describe each of them in verses 47-49, as "earthy" and "heavenly." The natural/earthy is what we are born with and have until death/rapture, and the spiritual/heavenly is the one that we get at the resurrection/rapture. Every member of the church, the body of Christ will receive their "spiritual" bodies at the rapture!

So to your original question...

You wrote: When we are raptured and given a resurrected body, will that body be earthly or celestial? It will neither be "earthly," nor "celestial" per se, it will be what our Apostle calls spiritual and heavenly.  One term describes the type of body it is (spiritual), and the other describes the location that our bodies are from heaven—just like our earthy ones are from the earth.

2 Corinthians 5:1-2

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Hopefully this helps!

_†††

_{++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

Do you have a question for Pastor Ron?

Northern California Grace Fellowship

 Heir of God or Joint-Heirs with Christ? 

Wrongly Deriding Joint-heirs with Christ

Norcal Grace YouTube Videos

 GladYouAsked YouTube Videos

As the new year begins...

On a personal note, may I share…

Since the inception of this blog, January 2011, we have surpassed 10,000 hits, which includes over 560 page views of the ‘Audio Messages’ since August.  Bible answers, rightly divided, are getting out there!!

To God be ALL the glory! 

If you are a frequent visitor, you will have noticed that the number of new, rightly divided Q&As have decreased in their regularity since Pastor Ron left Minnesota and moved his family in August to begin a new assembly.  The Minnesota assembly continues to be self sustaining and able to support their new pastor.  Until this fledgling ministry grows to that point, his writing ministry has, by necessity, been reduced. As time permits, new Q&As will be posted.

Scripture shows that sacrifice, affliction, tribulation and suffering are inherent in desiring the good work of a faithful minister.  No faithful, rightly-dividing, grace teacher will ever claim dominion over your spiritual life, telling you what to believe or what to do. Rather, these faithful men have dedicated their lives to be helpers of your joy!

Pastor Ron Knight is one of these faithful men, whose greatest desire is to study, search out, and teach others about the wonderful riches of God’s grace.  He has an effective ministry in the Word, providing light and giving sense to what the world’s wisdom only confuses, and what Satan would have us blinded to.  If you are being spiritually fed and growing in the knowledge of the riches of His grace because of Pastor Ron’s labor of love for the Lord, would you prayerfully consider standing with him and his family, in faith, encouraging, and supporting them—according to, only, as you purpose in your heart to do so.

As exhorted in scripture…

1 Timothy 5:17-18

Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.  For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

In His Service,

     by His amazing grace, and

          remembering always that...

Hedied4unme, blog master

_{+++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

Northern California Grace Fellowship (NCGF)

P. O. Box 886

Fair Oaks, CA  95628

Things under the earth

What is meant by "things under the earth" in Philippians 2?  Do they speak to the fact there is a governmental structure even in Hell? 

Here is what I see from scripture.

Philippians 2:9-11

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Most of the time, when our Apostle Paul uses the term "things" in heaven and/or earth, he is speaking of governmental structure.

Colossians 1:16

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

As usual, because Colossians and Ephesians are "sister books," they each give light and understanding about the other—Colossians focuses on Christ as the head, and Ephesians on the church, as his body. We can gain even more light about Colossians 1:16, by looking at a similar passage written by Paul in Ephesians; we see clearly that government structure is the issue.

Ephesians 1:20-22

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

So although I do agree that in these two passages Paul is dealing with Christ's authority as having the preeminence over all governmental positions both in heaven and one the earth, I also believe that Paul is focusing in on their operation. That is, these positions of rank and authority will not only be subject unto him and under his supreme rulership, but he will also use them to serve him throughout all eternity—redeemed believing Israel in the earth, and the church, the body of Christ in the heavenly places.

I do not see that as what Paul is saying in Philippians 2. Paul is dealing with how the Lord will use these government positions to serve him in Ephesians and Colossians, but Paul does not however, mention "things under the earth," like he does in Philippians 2.

And I believe that Paul does not use the phrase "things under the earth" in Ephesians and Colossians, because in those two passages, the all "things" will be serving him, and that's not true for the “things’ referred to in the second chapter of Philippians.

Philippians 2:9-11

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This passage is a quote from Isaiah 45...

Isaiah 45:23-24

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.  Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.  In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Notice here that in prophecy, at Messiah's return, everyone (in the earth, because this is the focus before Paul's revelation) will both bow before him and confess him as Lord! Notice also that some will do it willingly, but others will do it by force...but either way, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

Here in Isaiah, God is not focusing on any governmental offices in the context, per se. The focus is simply all things that have knees and tongues (mankind here...and the angelic/spiritual beings in the heavens and in hell as Paul now tells us) will bow and confess before our Lord!

So what I see in Philippians 2 is that Paul is simply dealing with the subjugation of all things or everything (men and angels and any other creatures that God created) to the Lordship of our Lord.

The things in earth and under the earth will bow and confess at his return to set up his kingdom and at the great white throne (both lost men and fallen angels). And the things in heaven at the Judgment Seat and any other council that take place among the elect angels of God up there.

Paul, here in Philippians 2, is not dealing with how Christ will use these different positions to serve him throughout eternity, like Paul is explaining in Colossians 1 and Ephesians 1. In Philippians 2, Paul is dealing with the subjection of "all things" under his dominion. He is dealing with the fact that through humbling Himself by coming to the earth and going to the cross, the Lord has the exalted, God-given authority over all things, and therefore subdue them under his feet!

I do not believe that there is governmental order in hell, that is, that there is a structure set up by God whereby the people who go to hell are or will be "serving" him.  They will be in 'torments' and then thrown into the Lake of Fire at the great white throne judgment.

So no, there are no verses that I see in all of scripture that say that there is a governmental hierarchy in hell serving God. It is the holding cell of torment for the lost of all the ages until they stand before the Judge.

Hopefully this helps!

_†††

_{++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

Do you have a question for Pastor Ron?

Northern California Grace Fellowship

 Heir of God or Joint-Heirs with Christ? 

Wrongly Deriding Joint-heirs with Christ

Norcal Grace YouTube Videos

 GladYouAsked YouTube Videos

P.S. Here is the only verse that I see from scripture that even comes close to some structure in hell, but hell is still a place of torment and confusion for the lost...

Isaiah 14:9

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations

Here God is mocking the "king of Babylon," who also represents both the future antichrist and his father, Satan.

Notice that although Isaiah uses terms like "chief ones" and "thrones,” he uses those words in context of "the earth,” and "the nations,” i.e., before they died and went to hell.

He is mocking the antichrist , saying that when he finally goes to hell, he'll get all the worship and claim that he desires from all the chief men who rejected God and followed him. God is mocking that once he gets to hell he'll get his much sought after "glory" in the flames.

So although there are levels in hell, i.e., lowest hell, depths, nether parts of the earth, heart of the earth, etc...based on the punishment doled out until the great white throne judgment, I see no governmental structure serving God (outside of maybe some elect angels who keep/guard the gates).

(Some other words that describe hell in scripture are... "sorrow,”  "destruction,”  "pains," "the pit,” "their shame"). So again, I don't see Paul dealing with Government structure in hell in Philippians 2, like he does in Colossians and Ephesians.

The King reigns in excellency

I believe that the KJV is the only authorized English version to use but can't understand the use of the word "gods" in lieu of “God” in…

Genesis 3:5

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Can you elaborate on that for me?

Unlike the NKJV where “God” is incorrectly used, the term "gods" is perfectly preserved in the KJV because Satan is not trying to tempt them to be like "God" the Creator, as they were already like him!  That is, they had "god-likeness,” or godliness. Satan was tempting her with not being like "God," but like the "gods" or the angels. In the bible, angels are also known as "gods."

These passages are referring to and talking about angels!

Exodus 22:28

Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

 

Psalm 82:1

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalm 138:1

I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee

Adam and Eve were already the son and daughter of God, and therefore like their Father.

Luke 3:38

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

But as a "son," Adam (and Eve) was to depend on the word of their Father, like the Lord Jesus Christ did. It was a form of worship.

John 14:24

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Matthew 4:8-10

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 

Satan wanted to keep them from depending on God, their Father, and to depend on "themselves" (but, which really amounted to listening to his word) like he and the fallen angels do. In essence, he tempted them to actually be less than they actually were—the same thing he does with us today in the church, the body of Christ!

Galatians 4:9

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

So the reason that the KJV uses "gods," and not "God" like the NKJV, it is because God is not the issue in the temptation, the angels are.

+++

Psalm 12:6-7

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Hopefully this helps!

_†††

_{++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

Do you have a question for Pastor Ron?

Northern California Grace Fellowship

 Heir of God or Joint-Heirs with Christ? 

Wrongly Deriding Joint-heirs with Christ

Norcal Grace YouTube Videos

 GladYouAsked YouTube Videos